Wednesday 14 May 2014

Defense of Paul of Tarsus: Response to a Muslim 2

Here some more points made by our Muslim friend in his article.

"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive"
(1 Cor. 15:22)


"The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin"

(Deut. 24:16)"

Deuteronomy 24:16 I have addressed time and time again. Deuteronomy 24:16 and Ezekiel 18:20 which are the same as one another are not addressing vicarious atonement, they are referring to us being responsible for our own sins. Jesus dying for our sins is not repudiated by the passages in the slightest and Paul's point to expand on this is not refuted either.

Paul is speaking on Adam's sin damning us and those who believe in Christ are spiritually made alive and restored to God to live in fellowship with him eternally. There is no connection between this text and Deuteronomy 24:16 and Ezekiel 18:20.


"Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath"
(Eph. 4:26)


"Be not hasty in thy spirit to be angry; for anger resteth in the bosom of fools"
(Eccle. 7:9),

"Make no friendship with an angry man; and with a furious man thou shalt not go" (Prov. 22:24)

"He that is slow to anger is better than the almighty (What blasphemy!); and he that ruleth his spirit than he that taketh a city"

(Prov. 16:32)."

There is nothing wrong with anger in and of it's self. What is condemned is UNRIGHTEOUS anger. Paul is saying not to be angry for the wrong reason and to not hold on to this anger.

Also the text in Proverbs 16:32 is NOT to talking about being better than YHWH, it is actually saying that one who is slow to anger is much better than a warrior or mighty man. There is no referrence to YHWH in that verse, thus Paul is NOT guilty of blasphemy:

"Proverbs 16:32 Better a patient person than a warrior, one with self-control than one who takes a city."
Read also the other translations:

The problem with anger is harnessing it correctly as it should be and God has absolute control over his anger.


"...God alone has immortality...whom no man has ever seen or can see"
(1 Tim. 6:16)


"And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel; for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved"
(Gen. 32:30),

"And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend"
(Ex. 33:11),

"...I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up...."
(Isa. 6:1),

"...for mine eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts"
(Isa. 6:5), (Amos 7:7-8)."

What a display of ignorance, What this Muslim author doesn't know either because he is being deceptive, or being ignorant. There are certain circumstances in the TANAKH where God can veil his glory and manifest himself on earth. This wasn't a true incarnation but God appeared as a man, specifically the second person of the Trinity and elsewhere only the Son can reveal his Father to us. Read my response to Tovia Singer on the Trinity, specifically what I have written about John 5:37 (


"...Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife"
(1 Cor. 7:27)

"For I would that all men were even as I myself (single)...I say therefore to the unmarried and widows. It is good for them if they abide even as I"
(1 Cor. 7:7-8)


"Then the Lord said, 'It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him'"
(Gen. 2:18)."

God is speaking specifically in the creation account of Adam having a partner, as the animals did not lack in having partners of their own. While marriage is a gift of God, it is not something expected of all his creatures. I DO NOT mean we can fornicate, I mean if a person's main focus is proclaimation of the Gospel, Paul says it is better for certain individuals not to marry, because they are more concerned about pleasing their spouse.

"7 Now for the matters you wrote about: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” 2 But since sexual immorality is occurring, each man should have sexual relations with his own wife, and each woman with her own husband. 3 The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4 The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife. 5 Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 6 I say this as a concession, not as a command. 7 I wish that all of you were as I am. But each of you has your own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that.

8 Now to the unmarried[a] and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I do. 9 But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

10 To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. 11 But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.

12 To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. 13 And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. 14 For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.

15 But if the unbeliever leaves, let it be so. The brother or the sister is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace. 16 How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?"


"25 Now about virgins: I have no command from the Lord, but I give a judgment as one who by the Lord’s mercy is trustworthy. 26 Because of the present crisis, I think that it is good for a man to remain as he is. 27 Are you pledged to a woman? Do not seek to be released. Are you free from such a commitment? Do not look for a wife. 28 But if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. But those who marry will face many troubles in this life, and I want to spare you this.

29 What I mean, brothers and sisters, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they do not; 30 those who mourn, as if they did not; those who are happy, as if they were not; those who buy something, as if it were not theirs to keep; 31 those who use the things of the world, as if not engrossed in them. For this world in its present form is passing away.

32 I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord’s affairs—how he can please the Lord. 33 But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world—how he can please his wife— 34 and his interests are divided. An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord’s affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit. But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of this world—how she can please her husband. 35 I am saying this for your own good, not to restrict you, but that you may live in a right way in undivided devotion to the Lord.

36 If anyone is worried that he might not be acting honorably toward the virgin he is engaged to, and if his passions are too strong[b] and he feels he ought to marry, he should do as he wants. He is not sinning. They should get married. 37 But the man who has settled the matter in his own mind, who is under no compulsion but has control over his own will, and who has made up his mind not to marry the virgin—this man also does the right thing. 38 So then, he who marries the virgin does right, but he who does not marry her does better.[c]

39 A woman is bound to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is free to marry anyone she wishes, but he must belong to the Lord. 40 In my judgment, she is happier if she stays as she is—and I think that I too have the Spirit of God."

There is nothing wrong with individuals marrying. In these passages, Paul lays down some important principles with respect to the issue of marriage. He encourages those who are married to keep their marriage sanctified a. He is NOT against anyone being married, he is addressing specific problems in specific people's lives.


"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness...."
(Gal. 5:22)


"And the Spirit of the Lord came upon him, and he judged Israel, and went out to war...."
(Judges 3:10)"

The fruit of the Spirit functioning the in the Old Testament would not contradict the New. Furthermore the war in question was a JUST war COMMANDED by God. It would be nice if this was pointed out to the audience. Christians are not expected to engage in war to spread the Gospel, but whether they should join the army or not, is up for debate and is neither here nor there.


“…whoremongers and adulterers God will judge"
(Heb. 13:4)


"And the Lord said to Hosea, Go, take unto thee a wife of whoredoms and children of whoredoms...."
(Hosea 1:2)"

God will judge sin and those who engage in it. Furthermore in Hosea 1-3, the reason that Hosea was commanded to take a harlot as his wife was to demonstrate that God was willing to save Israel from it's spiritual adultery. Hosea even tells Gomer quite forcefully that she is not to sleep with other men anymore and is married to him and in the spiritual application, God speaks to Israel to turn from their idols and to serve only him and the fact God made a covenant with them means that he wants Israel to be holy. Hosea turns Gomer away from her sinful ways and tells her that she is to lead a new life. If they don't, both Gomer and Israel, will be judged and condemned.


"Thou, Lord, didst found the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of thy hands; they (the earth and the heavens) will perish, but thou remainest...."
(Heb. 1:10-11)


“…and earth abideth forever"
(Eccle. 1:4)."

2 different contexts. Solomon is talking about the present earth continuing despite generations of people dying and being born, whereas in Hebrews 1:10-11, which is a quotation from Psalm 102:25-27, Though the earth and heavens may perish, YHWH remains forever and endures. Solomon is also thinking about his present situation, namely how he perceived his life and his achievements as pointless and that God is what really matters.


"By faith Moses left Egypt, not being afraid of the anger of the king...."
(Heb. 11:27)


"And he said, Who made thee (Moses) a prince and a judge over us? intendest thou to kill me, as thou killest the Egyptian? And Moses feared and said, Surely this thing is known. Now when Pharaoh heard this thing, he sought to slay Moses. But Moses fled from the face of Pharaoh and dwelt in the land of Midian...."
(Ex. 2:14-15)."
Let's actually read what Hebrews says in context:
"23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hidden for three months by his parents, because they saw that the child was beautiful, and they were not afraid of the king's edict. 24 By faith Moses, when he was grown up, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter, 25 choosing rather to be mistreated with the people of God than to enjoy the fleeting pleasures of sin. 26 He considered the reproach of Christ greater wealth than the treasures of Egypt, for he was looking to the reward. 27 By faith he left Egypt, not being afraid of the anger of the king, for he endured as seeing him who is invisible. 28 By faith he kept the Passover and sprinkled the blood, so that the Destroyer of the firstborn might not touch them."

The very text of the book of Hebrews is referring to Moses leaving Egypt when the Red Sea was parted, not to when he leaves after murdering the Egyptian slave driving. It is obvious that this author hasn't read the TANAKH or the New Testament carefully.

"That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such...."
(1 Thess. 4:6)


"...and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord God"
(Ezek. 39:10)

" shall spoil the Egyptians"
(Ex. 3:22)."
Different contexts. YHWH is giving forcing the Egyptians to hand the Israelites over to him and to let his people go:
"16 “Go, assemble the elders of Israel and say to them, ‘The Lord, the God of your fathers—the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob—appeared to me and said: I have watched over you and have seen what has been done to you in Egypt. 17 And I have promised to bring you up out of your misery in Egypt into the land of the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—a land flowing with milk and honey.’

18 “The elders of Israel will listen to you. Then you and the elders are to go to the king of Egypt and say to him, ‘The Lord, the God of the Hebrews, has met with us. Let us take a three-day journey into the wilderness to offer sacrifices to the Lord our God.’ 19 But I know that the king of Egypt will not let you go unless a mighty hand compels him. 20 So I will stretch out my hand and strike the Egyptians with all the wonders that I will perform among them. After that, he will let you go.

21 “And I will make the Egyptians favorably disposed toward this people, so that when you leave you will not go empty-handed. 22 Every woman is to ask her neighbor and any woman living in her house for articles of silver and gold and for clothing, which you will put on your sons and daughters. And so you will plunder the Egyptians.”"

In Ezekiel 39, this is what it says:
"39 “Son of man, prophesy against Gog and say: ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I am against you, Gog, chief prince of[a] Meshek and Tubal. 2 I will turn you around and drag you along. I will bring you from the far north and send you against the mountains of Israel. 3 Then I will strike your bow from your left hand and make your arrows drop from your right hand. 4 On the mountains of Israel you will fall, you and all your troops and the nations with you. I will give you as food to all kinds of carrion birds and to the wild animals. 5 You will fall in the open field, for I have spoken, declares the Sovereign Lord. 6 I will send fire on Magog and on those who live in safety in the coastlands, and they will know that I am the Lord.

7 “‘I will make known my holy name among my people Israel. I will no longer let my holy name be profaned, and the nations will know that I the Lord am the Holy One in Israel. 8 It is coming! It will surely take place, declares the Sovereign Lord. This is the day I have spoken of.

9 “‘Then those who live in the towns of Israel will go out and use the weapons for fuel and burn them up—the small and large shields, the bows and arrows, the war clubs and spears. For seven years they will use them for fuel. 10 They will not need to gather wood from the fields or cut it from the forests, because they will use the weapons for fuel. And they will plunder those who plundered them and loot those who looted them, declares the Sovereign Lord.

11 “‘On that day I will give Gog a burial place in Israel, in the valley of those who travel east of the Sea. It will block the way of travelers, because Gog and all his hordes will be buried there. So it will be called the Valley of Hamon Gog.[b]"

The plundering here was actually allowed by God to happen and is not a contradiction with Paul telling us not to plunder. For that matter, Israel was used as God's instrument to bring judgement upon Gog.


"God only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto...."
(1 Tim. 6:16)


"Then spake Solomon, The Lord said that he would dwell in the thick darkness"
(1 Kings 8:12),

"Clouds and darkness are around about him ..."
(Psalm 97:2),

"He made darkness his secret place; his pavilion round about him were dark waters...."
(Psalm 18:11)"

Different contexts God can dwell in both the place of light and the area of darkness. Lack of taking omnipresence into consideration.

So far I am horrified by this author's atrocious misreading of the Biblical Text.

More arguments of his may be addressed in the future if the Lord Wills.

Answering Judaism.

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