Here is another article dealing with Lawin's arguments... again.
"Friends let us read BOBo's explanation regarding 2 Samuel 7:14 against what is written in the article:
(insert article here)
Here is his explanation:
Furthermore, the authorof Hebrews has more than one passage in mind regarding this section, which are Psalm 2:7 and 1 Chronicles 17:13. One explanation offered by the Gills exposition of the entire Bible is this:
"I will be hisfather, and he shall be my son,.... That is, I will be as kind unto him, andcareful of him, as a father of a son; or he shall be, and appear to be my son,by adopting grace, as no doubt Solomon was, notwithstanding all his failings.This is applied to Christ, the antitypical Solomon, who was, in an highersense, the Son of God, even by natural and eternal generation; see Hebrews 1:5,
if he commit iniquity;which cannot be supposed of Christ; for though he was made sin by imputation,he neither knew nor did any, but may be supposed of his spiritual offspring,whom he represented as an head and surety, as of Solomon, who committed many sins and transgressions:".
Now let us read what God HIMSELF said in 2 Samuel 7:14
14 I will be his father, and he will be my son. WHEN HE DOES WRONG, I WILL PUNISH HIM WITH A ROD WIELDED BY MEN, WITH FLOGGINGS INFLICTED BY HUMAN HANDS.
2 Samuel 7:14 NIV
Friends- as always, with what BOBO said, he shot himself himself between his eyes :)
With his explanation quoted above,BOBO cannot deny now that Jesus is also under the word of God in 2 Samuel 7:14 because he (BOBO) said that the author of Hebrews 1:5 has also referenced the said prophecy (2 Samuel 7:14) to Jesus and even claims that the author of Hebrews also used two other verses which are Psalm 2:7 and I Chronicles 17:13
What BOBO did not understand is that when he said that the apostles cited God’s word in 2 Samuel 7:14 through their writing in Hebrews 1:5, he already proved to us that the apostles indeed lied and TWISTED the word of God"
Do a cross reference on Hebrews 1:5 and those two verses will come up. So my "claim" is indeed valid. Lawin claims I am twisting the scriptures and yet his prophet has done the very thing I am accused of doing.
"The very proof that the apostles twisted the word of God in 2 Samuel 7:14 about Jesus is found in Hebrews 1: 5 which reads:
4 So hebecame as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superiorto theirs. 5 For to which of the angels did God ever say, "You are mySon; today I have become your Father " ? Or again,"I will be his Father, and he will be my Son" ?
Hebrews 1:4-5 NIV
4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs. . – The apostles made it appear that Jesus is more superior than God’s angels
For to which of the angels did God ever say,"You are my Son; today I have become your Father " ? Or again,"I will be his Father, and he will be my Son" ?
Hebrews 1:5 NIV
Where is the scripture-twisting?
We can read the apostles in Hebrews 1:5 used two verses in the Old Testament to make it appear that Jesus is higher than the angels
One in Psalm 2:7
"You are my Son; today I have become yourFather " ?
Psalm 2:7 NIV
And the second is in 2 Samuel. 7:14
14 I will be his father, and he will be my son…
2 Samuel 7:14 NIV
This only shows that the apostles are citing God’s words in the Old Testament and they pertain those two separate verses (Psalm 2:7 and 2 Samuel 7:14) that it is where God spoke about Jesus
By citing 2 Samuel 7:14 it is so clear that the apostles know God’s word why Jesus will be flogged as we may discover that what God said in that verse was not fully divulged by the apostles."
The reason the verses are quoted by the apostles is simple, as already laid out in a previous article:
"Within these texts, they refer to the coronation of the Kings Solomon and David. This is royal sonship. Although Jesus was the Son from eternity, the sonship that is spoken of in Hebrews 1:5-8 is sonship in terms of his coronation, which occurred after his resurrection and sat at the Father's righthand. All three events that I have mentioned are to do with the coronation of the Messianic King. David, Solomon, then the Messiah himself. God never calls the angels sons in this sense however he does call Jesus this. Also in Luke 1: note the following
""30 But the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary; you have found favor with God. 31 You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you are to call him Jesus. 32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33 and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.”
This type of sonship requires one to be a descendant of David which Jesus affirms in the book of Revelation. A distinction between the two sonships is obviously there, when you cross referrence the statements given in Psalm 2 and 2 Samuel 7. How does Jesus inherit the name Son if he is already the Son? Because Hebrews is talking about 2 sonships, one royal and the other divine."
"What was fully written in 2 Sam.7:14 ?
14 I will be his father, and he will be my son.WHEN HE DOES WRONG, I WILL PUNISH HIM WITH A ROD WIELDED BY MEN, WITH FLOGGINGS INFLICTED BY HUMAN HANDS.
2 Samuel 7:14 NIV
As we can read in God's word in 2 Sam. 7:14, God spoke about a condition that He will do to His anointed one if he commits wrong and that is God will “PUNISH HIM WITH A ROD WIELDED BY MEN, WITH FLOGGINGS INFLICTED BY HUMAN HANDS.
We can discover now that God’s word was truly twisted by the apostles because the reason why God will let His anointed one - Jesus- be flogged by men is once he commits wrong and that was not mentioned by the apostles
. It is very clear that the apostles HID from humanity the very reason why God will have Jesus punished, it is not for our sins- it is for his own wrong. The apostles truly twisted the word of God. ALL THAT THEY HAD WRITTEN IN THE NEW TESTAMENT ARE TRULY FABRICATIONS, HALF-TRUTHS, AND LIES
You may ask- how about Psalm 2:7? That does not apply anymore to Jesus as he was flogged by men therefore he committed wrong- he failed being the“Anointed one” or the “Christ” of his people Israel."
These are the same tiresome boring arguments that have already been shredded:
Once again, Lawin claims that Jesus failed being the Anointed One and yet his misuse of the text doesn't prove his assertion.
"Is it written that God will be angry with one of the Anointed sons of David?
38 But you have rejected, you have spurned,
you have been very angry with your anointed one.
39 You have renounced the covenant with yourservant
and have defiled his crown in the dust.
Psalm 89:38-39 NIV
But you have rejected, you have spurned, you have been very angry with your anointed one.—God was so angry with the deeds of Jesus-
“Anointed one” or christ - the next to be chosen to be called “Son of God” after King Solomon
Why Jesus angered God?
1.Because Jesus claimed to be a literal Son of God , instead making known that he is just a descendant of David.
2. He propagated in his teachings that a church will built in his name instead of fulfilling the task to make known the name of God through the House that king Solomon built before for the name of God
3.Taught the teachings of Satan by doing miracles which God did not command and by teaching the opposite of God’s laws thus leading his people into committing sin against by God"
Yawn, Already addressed in another set of articles:
"Read what God did to Jesus:
40 You havebroken through all his walls andreduced his strongholds to ruins. 41 All whopass by have plundered him; hehas become the scorn of his neighbors. 42 You haveexalted the right hand of his foes; you have made all his enemies rejoice.
Psalm 89:40-42 NIV
This happened to Jesus – the son of David who was meant to be King OFIsrael, (Luke 1:31-32) he was mocked as written in:
29 When they had twisted a crown of thorns, they put it on His head, and a reed in His right hand. And they bowed the knee before Him and mocked Him, saying, "Hail, King of the Jews!" 30Then they spat on Him, and took the reed and struck Him on the head. 31 And when they had mocked Him, they took the robe off Him, put His own clothes on Him, and led Him away to be crucified.
Matthew 27:29-31 (NIV)
43 You have turned back the edge of his sword and have not supported him in battle. 44 You haveput an end to his splendor and cast his throne to the ground. 45 You havecut short the days of his youth; you have covered him with a mantle ofshame. "Selah"
Psalm 89:43-45 (NIV)
“You have cut short the days of his youth”- Jesus was brutally punished and put to death in his early 30′s.
What was written in this Psalm is consistent with what God said in 2 Samuel7:14 about the punishment that the anointed one will have if he commits wrong and we have seen it happen to Jesus.
This proves that the rant of the Apostles and religious leaders about an "Anti-Christ” is not true but a big DECEPTION as Jesus himself failed to fulfill the duty of being the Christ or the anointed King of his people Israel as he committed iniquity.
Therefore the religions can no longer deny that the apostles made a FALSE EXPLANATION and even twisted such words of God to make it appear that Jesus is a son of God ‘higher” than God’s angels when the said word of God in 2 Samuel 7;14 about being called a Son of God was first given to King Solomon in 1 Chronicles 22:9-10."
Jesus being flogged has no connection to the anointed one's punishment in Psalm 89 or 2 Samuel 7:14. The very NT that Lawin quotes establishes that Jesus was sinless and his death at the hands of the Jews still has no connection 2 Samuel 7:14 despite the protests of Lawin.
As I have stated in my article on Isaiah 53 responding to Erano:
"Firstly, The funny thing is Erano claims Jesus was judged BY GOD in his original article. Also he fails to inform the audience reading his paper that the people who witnessed Jesus being crucified with the exception of a few were actually jeering at Jesus. In Matthew 27:42-44 we read:
""He saved others; He cannot save Himself. He is the King of Israel; let Him now come down from the cross, and we will believe in Him. 43"HE TRUSTS IN GOD; LET GOD RESCUE Him now, IF HE DELIGHTS IN HIM; for He said, 'I am the Son of God.'" 44The robbers who had been crucified with Him were also insulting Him with the same words."
The people in the passage believed that God had smitted Jesus, this is evident from their words. In other words "If he is the King sent by God, Let God rescue him, if not, let him die on the cross".
Notice they assume IF God delights in Christ. Notice also that the suffering in Isaiah 53 is to do with his suffering, not just verbal, but physical, so Jesus' physical pain is factored in the equation, something Erano rejects. Even Rabbinic Jews agree that there is physical pain in the passage being done to Israel.
The people at the time of the crucifixion actually did believe Christ was smitten by God, which is exactly what Erano himself claims. Although the people and Erano are actually wrong in their conclusion, They thought Jesus was smitten by God for his sins. Whereas a matter of fact he was actually the following:
"5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed."
Notice the passage in verse 5 of Isaiah 53 says the servant is crushed because of someone elses iniquities, not his own. So again we have another false conclusion from this man and the fact he can't exegete the Bible properly is either an indication of ignorance or nefariousness."
Additionally, The spurning of the anointed one can refer to one of David's descendents, including Solomon but excluding Jesus.
"The truth is, even before Jesus was born, God’s angels are already called Sons of God!
6 One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them.
Job 1:6 NIV
“One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD” –Let us read another version:
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them.
Job 1:6 NKJV
It is clear that the angels of God are also called “SONS of GOD” thus what the apostles have written in Hebrews 1:5 that jesus was superior than the angels is NOT true and even made a false claim because the first one to be given the title son of God was King Solomon. Jesus was only a second choice."
The difference is that Jesus is the Son of God FROM ETERNITY, whereas angels are created sons or simply servants. There is a conflation of terms on the part of Lawin. Solomon was a son of God by adoption. There are different kinds of sons of God in scripture. Also, as mentioned before the sonship spoken of in Hebrews 1:5-8 is a sonship in the sense of a kingly coronation. There is royal sonship and divine sonship that Jesus possesses.
"Since the apostles were now found wrong in what they have written about the real reason why God will have Jesus flogged by men-it cannot be denied that they are wrong in writing that Jesus is the prophet like Moses in Deut.18:18-19
Now what BOBO did was to make his own grave dragging with him the Gills exposition:
Read how he reasoned against 2 Samuel 7:14
This is what I said:
"I WILL BE HIS FATHER, AND HE WILL BE MY SON. WHEN HE DOES WRONG, I WILL PUNISH HIM WITH THEROD OF MEN, WITH FLOGGINGS INFLICTED BY MEN."
II Samuel 7:14 (NIV)
Did the said floggings happened to Jesus? Yes
Was Jesus part of the prophecy in this verse- Yes as written in Luke 1:31-32
So why did God have Jesus flogged as based on the said prophecy?
And what did you say about 2 Samuel 7:14? Read your links?
Again you did not understand you retard.
The one who explained how Jesus was part of 2 Samuel 7:12-14 was the man who has proved he is the prophet like Moses in Deut.18:18-19 with his revelation of God's name from scripture to scripture without having studied the Bible, therefore it is God who had put His words in His mouth and thus the person we should only listen to when it comes to the word of God.""
OH MY GOODNESS! How long are you going to blather the same arguments OVER AND OVER AGAIN?
http://answering-judaism.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/how-erano-evangelista-deceived-humanity.html The misuse of Deuteronomy 18 and 2 Samuel 7:14 is already taken care of.
"His answer: Again, the curse in 2 Samuel 7:14 doesn't apply to Jesus, because he didn't sin according to the very NT you quote and Erano quotes.
Again, the curse in 2 Samuel 7:14 doesn't apply to Jesus,-How can you say that the curse did not apply to Jesus when the floggings that God decreed in that verse had happened to Jesus?
because he didn't sin according to the very NT you quote and Erano quotes.- And Of course that New Testament authors will not write that Jesus was allowed by God to be flogged by men for his wrong because it is the reason why they twisted the words of God in 2 Samuel 7:14 in the first place, you idiot."
Jesus said he came to die for us and give his life as a ransom. i.e DIE FOR SINS!!. HE claims innocence and even says to the Pharisees "Which of you can convict me of sin?". You misapplication of 2 Samuel 7:14's punishement to Jesus is refuted by the very NT documents you quote. YOU are claiming they twisted the words of God.
"Also the more you say that you still need a proof of Maestro being the prophet like Moses, the more you show you really did not read intelligently the said articles in (insert website here)
(Of course, you cannot read it intelligently because your DELUSION that God called you to be an apologist for the Jews blinded you)
How can Maestro Evangelista reveal such truths in the Bible concerning :
-God’s great name,
-Why Jesus was sent,
-God’s purpose in creating mankind
-How mankind’s future will realistically peaceful, prosperous and beautiful here on earth if they(mankind) be as one in revering His great name and obeying His laws –
All that, and many more revelations in the website (insert website here)-when he did not study the Bible in the first place?"
Big whoop, Joseph Smith claimed revelation and so did Muhammad. In fact Muhammad was illiterate and yet he claimed he was a prophet. WHAT THE HELL DOES THAT PROVE? NOTHING! A crack addict or someone affected by an hallucinogenic could claim he saw a dragon but that doesn't make it true. Any person can read an article or book with an intelligent mind AND STILL reject the material contained therein. If a person's revelation doesn't conform to Biblical truth, THEY ARE FALSE PROPHETS. PROVE your prophet to be the prophet like Moses.
"It only shows that it is God who had put His words in his mouth for him to be able to make such revelations and it is God who commanded him to reveal the truth about His great name - thus through Maestro Evangelista we can witness now how God fulfilled His promise of sending a prophet like Moses
18I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth,
and he will tell them everything I command him. 19 If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet
speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account.
Deuteronomy 18:18-19 NIV
This is why all that you have written in your blog now are all nothing when it comes to the word of God because you are now going against the real man whom God foretold in Deut.18:18-19, the prophet whom God requires people to listen to when it comes to His words, particularly His Name."
You assume he is the prophet in Deuteronomy 18 but the scriptures themselves refute you.
"Now do not wait for the time that we will witness in you what God said He would do to idiots like you who spoke against His real prophet like Moses:
19 If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet
speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account.
Your punishment from God is written in the article: (insert article here)
Don't tell me you have already written against it- for in your admission that you are not a prophet, you also admit that all you have written came not from God but from your own understanding. Thus, God is not the one who put His words in your mouth to make such explanations. LOL
See how you refuted himself when you admitted you are not a prophet? You lost this battle from the very beginning and you are just an idiot not to understand it.
BOBO If i were you, i'd delete all that you have written in your blog-for it is not Maestro but it is God whom you went against with your lies. Drill that truth inside your skull, Ok?"
Again, the onus of proof is ON YOU AND ERANO to prove that Erano is the prophet. Again, YOU ASSUME WHAT YOU HAVE YET TO PROVE!! So far you haven't said anything and I have never claimed prophetic revelation in my writings. But my denial of having prophetic credentials doesn't mean your prophet automatically gets the bonus.
Once again, My points about Deuteronomy 18 remain untouched and your dismissal of my arguments DO NOT REFUTE ME.
Hopefully I have responded to Lawin and refuted his objections by the grace of God and I hope this article has been of help to you guys.