Sunday 13 October 2013

Anointed Ones and Strange Gods

I had a conversation a while back with a friend of mine regarding the issue of atonement but I want to focus on a few points and try to address them as best I can by the grace of the Lord. It mainly began with the issue of the atonement how Daniel was saved without the temple itself.
The main point of contention was Hosea 14 and the subject of Hosea 3 as well. to quickly summerise, one of the disagreements the friend and I had was over the nature of Hosea 14 whether or not it has an ongoing fulfillment. I contended it didn't and thus was referring to a particular event in time. I agreed however with him on Hosea 3 but went further and said it had an ongoing fulfillment, with Jews being without a temple and coming to faith in the Messiah, who I contend is Jesus or Yeshua in the context of the scripture.
I also have brought William Lane Craig's point about being saved by responding to the Revelation that was given. The statement was:
"They're saved by responding to the revelation that God had given to them, and if they respond in an appropriate way, Then according to the NT, God applies to them the benefits of Christ's atoning death, so they are saved through Christ even though they have no conscious knowledge of Christ,because they respond to the revelation that God has given to them"

Though this was in context of the Trinity, the same principle applies. My main point is this:  The first exillic Jews were not congnicent of Christ, but because of believing in the revelations given,, Christ's death redeemed them. As for the second exile, assuming Christ is the Messiah, Atonement has already come to pass through him, hence no need for the temple to atone. Those in a second exile can be covered by Jesus if they turn to him.

However, a point that came up was the subject of Deuteronomy 13, where it speaks of being on your guard against those who tell you to go after strange gods and gods you have not known and that since the exilic Jews didn't need to believe in the deity of and the messiahship of Jesus in order to atone and that belief in a "divine son of God" was not included in the revelation or needed for atonement, thus Jesus was a God that Daniel didn't know of and thus fails to be a true prophet. 

Strange point right?  his point is "If they have no conscious knowledge of jesus, then they obviously didn't pray to G-d with the trinity in mind! Therefore, the trinitian version of god is a god which DANIEL DID NOT KNOW! That is why jesus cannot be a true prophet!?"

Firstly, let's look at the passage in question
"13 [a]If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a sign or wonder, 2 and if the sign or wonder spoken of takes place, and the prophet says, “Let us follow other gods” (gods you have not known) “and let us worship them,” 3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 It is the Lord your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. 5 That prophet or dreamer must be put to death for inciting rebellion against the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery. That prophet or dreamer tried to turn you from the way the Lord your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you."

Now the question is, does this falsify Jesus as a false prophet? The answer is a resounding no. I grant that none prayed in the name of Jesus in the TANAKH itself, or even said "in the name of the Malak Adonai or the Angel of the Lord, I beseech thee HaShem" and this would apply to Daniel as well, but how this falsifies Jesus makes know sense. Furthermore, it is the NT's claim that Jesus IS HaShem, though not the same person as the Father. The author of the Book of Hebrews in particular uses various passages from the TANAKH in Chapter 1 to demonstrate Jesus' messiahship using Psalm 110 and showing the Deity of Christ by applying Psalm 102:25-27, which is about HaShem, to Jesus.

Daniel wasn't cognicent of Christ's existence in eternity because the revelation of the doctrine of the Trinity occurred with the Incarnation and the pouring out of the Holy Spirit which took place after Daniel's death. There are HINTS at the Trinity in the TANAKH which I mention in previous articles, particularly the Angel of the Lord series I have done. As most know, It is the Trinitarian claim that Jesus is the HaShem who appeared to Abraham. Abraham obviously didn't say "Oh Jesus, I worship you" or something like that. As far as he was concerned, he was speaking with the Lord of Hosts.
Daniel did pray to HaShem, but this wouldn't falsify Christ. Regarding the issue of the contexts of the TANAKH which speak of YHWH speaking with singular pronouns, James White on the Dividing Line in response to Anthony Buzzard says:
"Every single time, that the context does not demand that we see a particular indiviudual operating differently than the others, would be a referrence to the Triune God. So anytime where God's general activities, God's general attributes or in referrence, can be refered to the entire Godhead acting in unity."

For the context I would recommend actually listening to that broadcast which can be found on James White's account on youtube, DrOakley1689.

What's my point, Daniel not being cognicent of Jesus isn't a problem, because the context of his prayer in Daniel 9, one of the revelations I appealed to, doesn't demand having Daniel praying  to a member of the Godhead or in the name of a member of the Godhead. As far as the context is concerned, he is praying to HaShem and considering it is the Christian claim that HaShem is 3 persons in one being, there is no problem.

Deuteronomy 13 is speaking of OTHER DEITIES, which Jesus would NEVER condone at all. After, what did Jesus say was the greatest commandment? He quotes the Shema.
It is not the Christian's claim that Jesus is some renegade deity pulling us away from HaShem, its the Christian's claim that HaShem came to earth as a man to pay the price for our sin. Jesus would never encourage idolatry or worship of strange gods or unknown Gods.

Response Continues here:

1 comment:

  1. Deuteronomy 11, 13, 29, 32, Jeremiah 7:9, 19:4, and 44:3 both warns Israelites not to follow any spiritual being or beings that they had no knowledge of prior or after Sinai. Or the spiritual beings that other nations served but they had knowledge of said spiritual beings.

    In other words if the Jews didn't have any knowledge about Jesus whatsoever before or during Sinai than Jesus would be a strange god they can't worship period no if and's or but's about it.