Wednesday, 8 October 2014

Tackling Rabbinic Objections

In this article I hope to deal with some more Rabbinic objections that have been brought to my attention.

The first objection was with respect to what was said in my article "Comments on School of X and Y"

On my Answering Judaism Facebook page, the following was said:
"This is not a sufficient answer. According to the gospels, Jesus fulfilled this prophecy 30 years before he was met with people who didn't like him. What is Matthew doing declaring fulfillment before it happened? A better application might be, "and they sought to have him stoned, to fulfill what the prophets have spoken, saying he shall be a Nazarene." When Matthew places fulfillment so early, he is hinting to the location as essential, not his teachings or enemies.

Further, it wasn't just Galileans who were held in low esteem; so were the Babylonians. Why don't the gospels appeal to the prophets saying "he shall be a Babylonian?"

Although the article claims "the prophets" include Psalm 22, 118, and Isaiah 53, these do not clearly speak of the messiah. Is there a clear verse which states that the messiah will be rejected, or only verses removed from context that support this claim?
"

Psalm 22 is addressed here:
http://answering-judaism.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/examination-of-some-arguments-raised-by.html

The subject of Isaiah 53 has been addressed here in the following papers:
http://answering-judaism.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/contra-blumenthal-examination-of-contra.html
http://answering-judaism.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/response-to-uri-yosef-on-isaiah-53.html
http://answering-judaism.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/response-to-uri-yosef-on-isaiah-53-2.html
http://answering-judaism.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/response-to-uri-yosef-on-isaiah-53-3.html
http://answering-judaism.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/response-to-uri-yosef-on-isaiah-53-4.html

Read also the article responding to Maestro M Erano Evangelista:
http://answering-judaism.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/refuting-erano-false-prophet-on-isaiah.html

To be fair, Does ANY passage speak explicitly of the Messiah? That's a point I have raised in my articles in the past.

The Gospels don't say Jesus is a Babylonian because that wasn't relevant to their point to beginning. They were referring to their particular time they state of Galilee and how it was percieved in their day.

Psalm 118 in it's context refers to David but can also refer to Jesus. I won't be debating who it is in the passage in the context of the OT passage, but I am making the point it's David.
"1 Give thanks to the Lord, for he is good;
    his love endures forever.

2 Let Israel say:
    “His love endures forever.”
3 Let the house of Aaron say:
    “His love endures forever.”
4 Let those who fear the Lord say:
    “His love endures forever.”

5 When hard pressed, I cried to the Lord;
    he brought me into a spacious place.
6 The Lord is with me; I will not be afraid.
    What can mere mortals do to me?
7 The Lord is with me; he is my helper.
    I look in triumph on my enemies.

8 It is better to take refuge in the Lord
    than to trust in humans.
9 It is better to take refuge in the Lord
    than to trust in princes.
10 All the nations surrounded me,
    but in the name of the Lord I cut them down.
11 They surrounded me on every side,
    but in the name of the Lord I cut them down.
12 They swarmed around me like bees,
    but they were consumed as quickly as burning thorns;
    in the name of the Lord I cut them down.
13 I was pushed back and about to fall,
    but the Lord helped me.
14 The Lord is my strength and my defense[a];
    he has become my salvation.

15 Shouts of joy and victory
    resound in the tents of the righteous:
“The Lord’s right hand has done mighty things!
16     The Lord’s right hand is lifted high;
    the Lord’s right hand has done mighty things!”
17 I will not die but live,
    and will proclaim what the Lord has done.
18 The Lord has chastened me severely,
    but he has not given me over to death.
19 Open for me the gates of the righteous;
    I will enter and give thanks to the Lord.
20 This is the gate of the Lord
    through which the righteous may enter.
21 I will give you thanks, for you answered me;
    you have become my salvation.

22 The stone the builders rejected
    has become the cornerstone;
23 the Lord has done this,
    and it is marvelous in our eyes.
24 The Lord has done it this very day;
    let us rejoice today and be glad.

25 Lord, save us!
    Lord, grant us success!

26 Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.
    From the house of the Lord we bless you.[b]
27 The Lord is God,
    and he has made his light shine on us.
With boughs in hand, join in the festal procession
    up[c] to the horns of the altar.

28 You are my God, and I will praise you;
    you are my God, and I will exalt you.

29 Give thanks to the Lord, for he is good;
    his love endures forever.
"

And the references from the NT shall be provided:
"Matthew 21:33 “Listen to another parable: There was a landowner who planted a vineyard. He put a wall around it, dug a winepress in it and built a watchtower. Then he rented the vineyard to some farmers and moved to another place. 34 When the harvest time approached, he sent his servants to the tenants to collect his fruit.

35 “The tenants seized his servants; they beat one, killed another, and stoned a third. 36 Then he sent other servants to them, more than the first time, and the tenants treated them the same way. 37 Last of all, he sent his son to them. ‘They will respect my son,’ he said.

38 “But when the tenants saw the son, they said to each other, ‘This is the heir. Come, let’s kill him and take his inheritance.’ 39 So they took him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.

40 “Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?”

41 “He will bring those wretches to a wretched end,” they replied, “and he will rent the vineyard to other tenants, who will give him his share of the crop at harvest time.”

42 Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:

“‘The stone the builders rejected
    has become the cornerstone;
the Lord has done this,
    and it is marvelous in our eyes’[h]?

43 “Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit. 44 Anyone who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; anyone on whom it falls will be crushed.”[i]

45 When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard Jesus’ parables, they knew he was talking about them. 46 They looked for a way to arrest him, but they were afraid of the crowd because the people held that he was a prophet.
"

"Mark 12:1 Jesus then began to speak to them in parables: “A man planted a vineyard. He put a wall around it, dug a pit for the winepress and built a watchtower. Then he rented the vineyard to some farmers and moved to another place. 2 At harvest time he sent a servant to the tenants to collect from them some of the fruit of the vineyard. 3 But they seized him, beat him and sent him away empty-handed. 4 Then he sent another servant to them; they struck this man on the head and treated him shamefully. 5 He sent still another, and that one they killed. He sent many others; some of them they beat, others they killed.

6 “He had one left to send, a son, whom he loved. He sent him last of all, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’

7 “But the tenants said to one another, ‘This is the heir. Come, let’s kill him, and the inheritance will be ours.’ 8 So they took him and killed him, and threw him out of the vineyard.

9 “What then will the owner of the vineyard do? He will come and kill those tenants and give the vineyard to others. 10 Haven’t you read this passage of Scripture:

“‘The stone the builders rejected
    has become the cornerstone;
11 the Lord has done this,
    and it is marvelous in our eyes’[a]?”

12 Then the chief priests, the teachers of the law and the elders looked for a way to arrest him because they knew he had spoken the parable against them. But they were afraid of the crowd; so they left him and went away.
"

"Luke 20:9 He went on to tell the people this parable: “A man planted a vineyard, rented it to some farmers and went away for a long time. 10 At harvest time he sent a servant to the tenants so they would give him some of the fruit of the vineyard. But the tenants beat him and sent him away empty-handed. 11 He sent another servant, but that one also they beat and treated shamefully and sent away empty-handed. 12 He sent still a third, and they wounded him and threw him out.

13 “Then the owner of the vineyard said, ‘What shall I do? I will send my son, whom I love; perhaps they will respect him.’

14 “But when the tenants saw him, they talked the matter over. ‘This is the heir,’ they said. ‘Let’s kill him, and the inheritance will be ours.’ 15 So they threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.

“What then will the owner of the vineyard do to them? 16 He will come and kill those tenants and give the vineyard to others.”

When the people heard this, they said, “God forbid!”

17 Jesus looked directly at them and asked, “Then what is the meaning of that which is written:

“‘The stone the builders rejected
    has become the cornerstone’[a]?

18 Everyone who falls on that stone will be broken to pieces; anyone on whom it falls will be crushed.”

19 The teachers of the law and the chief priests looked for a way to arrest him immediately, because they knew he had spoken this parable against them. But they were afraid of the people.
"

The Lord raised up David to be the cornerstone, the leader of the nation to whom all Israel is subject. There are rebels within the land of Israel but also outside Israel that rejected David's kingship and authority over them and for this reason would be punished or exiled. Absalom himself rebelled against King David and paid the price for it. The Pharisees themselves rejected Jesus thus had the kingdom taken from them and given to other Jews more worthy of this privelage. The suffering of David and the future Messiah are found in Psalm 118, the suffering that comes from their enemies.

Defense of Jesus is not left to taking verses out of context.

Another point that was made was this:
"John 13:18 asserts that Jesus fulfilled messianic prophecy in Psalm 41:9. Is it just this verse which is messianic, or is the whole chapter a prophecy of the messiah? Follow-up question: if only that verse is messianic, how do you know? Can we really trust selective prooftexting, i.e. taking a single verse from a chapter and calling it prophetic? If the whole chapter is messianic in nature, then how can you demonstrate that? Additionally, would you agree verse 4 speaks of Jesus, when he says "forgive me, for I have sinned against You?""

I recommend this explaination by Gill on this point:
http://biblehub.com/john/13-18.htm
"but he observes, so it is, and will come to pass, that there is one of you which will betray me:
that the Scripture may be fulfilled: Psalm 41:9, as it literally (b) was in Judas's betraying Christ. The passage is by many interpreted either of Ahithophel, or of some other counsellor of Absalom's, or of Absalom himself; and is applied to their conduct, with respect to David, at the time of their rebellion against him; and which is thought to be typical of the treatment Christ met with from an apostle of his: but we do not find that, at the time of that rebellion, David was sick, or had any disease upon him, from whence they might hope for his death; it does not seem, as though it could be literally understood of David at all, and of the behaviour of any of his servants; but most properly of David's son, the Messiah, Jesus, with whom everything in the psalm agrees; and particularly this verse, which so plainly describes Judas, and expresses his base ingratitude, hypocrisy, and malice: the former part of the text is not cited, "yea, mine own familiar friend", or "the man of my peace, in whom I trusted"; though it fully agrees with him, he being admitted to great familiarity with Christ, and lived peaceably with him; and who was intrusted by him with the bag, into which the money was put, which was ministered, either for the sustenance of him and his apostles, or for the use of the poor: but our Lord thought fit to cite no more of it than what follows, that being sufficiently descriptive of him; and especially at this present time, when he was at table with his Lord.
He that eateth bread with me, hath lift up his heel against me; he sat down with him at table frequently, and ate bread with him; and was doing so, when Satan put it into his heart to betray him; which is strongly expressed, by "lifting up" his "heel against him"; and sets forth the ingratitude, wickedness, and cruelty of him; who, like an unruly horse, that has thrown his rider, spurns at him, to destroy him; and also the insidious manner in which he did it; he supplanted, he tripped him, as wrestlers do, in order to cast him down to the ground, and then trample upon him, and triumph over him: he first "laid snares for him", as Jarchi explains the phrase used in the "psalm", and then "he magnified his heel", he behaved proudly and haughtily to him.
"

Obviously we need to avoid proof texting and understand why the New Testament authors quote the TANAKH with respect to Jesus, in other words, What is the point that is been made by the NT writers.

Though David sinned and Jesus did not and though Jesus died at the hands of his enemies in accordance with the Father's will, their circumstances are the same, both David and his descendant the Messiah would be betrayed by their closest friends and be handed over to their enemies.

Now let's move onto the next point:
"Many holy rabbis are/were known to effect miracles. Even becoming resurrected, or bringing others to life. Yet they didnt claim to be...Gd!!!
Followers of jezus transgress half of the decalogue."


Such as? I would like to know. Furthermore, my argument is not resurrection proves you are God, my argument is Jesus claimed to be God and because of his resurrection, his claims are proven true and he is vindicated. For those who are interested, see the following on Deuteronomy 13:
http://answering-judaism.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/deuteronomy-13-question-of-vindication.html?m=1
http://answering-judaism.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/deuteronomy-13-question-of-vindication-2.html?m=1
http://answering-judaism.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/spiritual-experiences-what-can-they.html?m=1


Regarding the decalogue and to reiterate a point I made in response to Rabbi Eli Cohen, Jesus is referring to his goal that he is coming to accomplish and that he is not setting aside the Law and the Prophets. This doesn't mean that Gentiles are to observe the Torah in it's entirety and I write on this subject here: http://answering-judaism.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/observance-of-torah-demanded-of-gentiles.html

Fulfilling of the law is not the same as abolishing it. Jesus fulfills the demands that the Torah requires and thus there are certain commands that needn't be carried out by virtue of him fulfilling those requirements. I also direct people to this article for other pieces of information regarding the laws pertaining to women raised by Yehuda Yisroel and others: http://answering-judaism.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/the-good-bad-or-strange-fulfillment.html.

Read also the following on the subject of repentance that is raised in one of my papers responding to Rabbi Yisroel Blumenthal: http://answering-judaism.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/examination-of-some-arguments-raised-by.html

Now the next point:

"AJ, the Sh'ma was not proclaimed with any goal in mind. It simply the foremost statement in the Hebrew Bible establishing the principal that Hashem is Israel's only Deity and that the Eternal is ONE- not ONE composed of three persons or hypostases as the church fathers would tend to state. Why do Christian Trinitarians think they see the truth but for more than 3000 years the revelations made to my ancestors at Sinai through the greatest prophet who ever lived and throughout the centuries were misinterpreted because we have "veils" over our eyes.?"

The Shema doesn't teach on the Trinity or the nature of God for that matter, it only teaches on how many Gods there are, hence, no violation of the Shema is commited by the Trinity.

Even if a Rabbinic Jew or a Christian argue about Echad being singular or plural, it is meaningless since the Trinity isn't the Shema's point to begin with.

Here is also a response to sandz that was done a while back:
http://answering-judaism.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/temple-offerings-response-to-sandz.html

Here is another objection to tackle:
"Christianity on the other hand however teaches God declares you righteous when you come to him in repentance and faith and then you carry out good works as GRATITUDE to him, rather than for your salvation."
This is what I said, to which barry umansky said:

"Actually, that is what Judaism teaches, not Christianity- at least according to Paul's teachings. It is Judaism that teaches that if man sincerely repents of his sins and tries to improve his behaviour- then forgiveness is obtainable from Hashem. Our guide for ethical behaviour is the Torah, and its commandments or mitzvot."

Judaism doesn't teach that forensic justification before God, Christianity DOES teach what I assert in the point made above.
 Read Ephesians 2:8-10 "8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do."

So Paul does speak on works, but he makes it clear you are NOT saved by works, but saved for them instead.

While the Torah itself is good as a guideline, you can't be saved by merely observing it. I have also written articles on whether Gentiles should observe certain ordinances of the Torah or not, a common issue raised by some Messianics and the heretical 7th Day Adventists.

Other objections may be addressed in the future if the Lord Wills

Answering Judaism.

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