Once again I'll be addressing Angel Lawin, one of the followers of the Maestro M Evangelista.
"Hello again Brothers!
Take a look how deceitful Jake Benett aka BOBO benett of answeringjudaism is in what he had written in:
He said in his explanation about Genesis 32:24-30 is this:
The man who wrestles with Jacob was YHWH God. YHWH appeared as a man and wrestled with Jacob and eventually blesses him. This individual was the angel of the LORD, a divine entity in the TANAKH who appeared to Abraham in Genesis 18 and 19. The angel was Jesus appearing as a man, but not fully being incarnated at these points in time and only Jesus could make the Father known to mankind.
Brothers we can read that BOBO claims that the man whom Jacob wrestled with was God Himself.
Think about it people, God the great God of gods wrestled a man?? Clearly BOBO benett is really BOBO because he wrote a blasphemy against God!
Now why don’t we read what God Himself showed to Maestro Evangelista in the scriptures who Jacob wrestled with.
The fact is this revelation concerning Genesis 32had been revealed many times in the articles in www.thename.ph, had this serpent read all the articles in the website well, he should not have made such a STUPID explanation of Genesis 32:24-30"
Let's see if we actually get a decent response to my arguments.Also, My argument is that God appeared as a man to Jacob but a true incarnation hadn't taken place. It is not blasphemy for YHWH to take on a human appearance or come in the flesh to interact with his people.
I have no idea why Lawin assumes that simply reading every article written by Erano would prove him to be who he says he is.
"We will read the explanation of the prophet like Moses, Teacher Eraño Evangelista:
So Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him till daybreak.
Genesis 32:24 (NIV)
Remember, it is not God who wrestled with Jacob- it is a man.
When the man saw that he could not overpower him, he touched the socket of Jacob’s hip so that his hip was wrenched as he wrestled with the man. Then the man said, “Let me go, for it is daybreak.” But Jacob replied, “I will not let you go unless you bless me.”
Genesis 32:25-26 (NIV)
He overcame or won over the “man.” Jacob would not let go of the man unless he was given its blessing. Jacob knew that the one he wrestled with was a man of God.
The man asked him, “What is your name?” “Jacob,” he answered. Then the man said, “Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with God and with men and have overcome. Jacob said, “Please tell me your name.” But he replied, “Why do you ask my name?” Then he blessed him there.
Genesis 32:27-29 (NIV)
Jacob was given the name Israel, but he is still asking for the name of the “man. "ISRAEL” - This is the Name that was given to him by the “man”. From here we can understand that the name “Israel” was given to Jacob as a blessing.
So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, “It is because I saw
God face to face, and yet my life was spared.”
Genesis 32:30 (NIV)
Why did Jacob say that he had seen God when in truth it is only a “man” whom he had wrestled?
The man introduced in the context is YHWH, Jacob blatantly says "It is because I saw
God face to face, and yet my life was spared.". He is BLATANTLY SPEAKING ABOUT YHWH.
"Can God be seen?
But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.”
Exodus 33:20 (NIV)
If we will see Him, we will die. Therefore it is not God whom Jacob wrestled with. How can we prove that Jacob did not see God?
The LORD has a charge to bring against Judah; he will punish Jacob
according to his ways and repay him according to his deeds. In the womb
he grasped his brother’s heel; as a man he struggled with God.
Hosea 12:2-3 (NIV)
“In the womb he grasped his brother’s heel“-Jacob‘s innate character was described – and that was his PERSISTENCE when he did not let himself be left behind when he grasped his brother’s heel as they were coming out of their mother’s womb.
He struggled with the angel and overcame him; he wept and begged for his favor. He found him at Bethel and talked with him there -
Hosea 12:4 (NIV)
He struggled with THE ANGEL and overcame him; It is now clear, the “man” whom Jacob wrestled with was an “angel of God” and not God Himself.
Why did Jacob gave the Angel of God such respect? What authority does an Angel of God have from God?
“See, I am sending an angel ahead of you to guard you along the way and to bring you to the place I have prepared. Pay attention to him and listen to what he says. Do not rebel against him; he will not forgive your rebellion, since my Name is in him.
Exodus 23:20-21 (NIV)
“Do not rebel against him; he will not forgive your rebellion, since my Name is in him.”- This is why Jacob gave such respect to the angel or man of God as the angel was sent by God to bring His message.
Once again Bobo Benett is exposed. It is not God whom Jacob wrestled with-it is God’s angel, a man"
As Erano has mentioned elsewhere, he admits that the word angel can mean messenger and not usually a divine being or entity. I have written on Genesis 18 and Exodus 24 in my article Contra Blumenthal which can be found here: http://answering-judaism.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/contra-blumenthal-examination-of-contra.html
The appeal to Hosea doesn't help Erano, What angel causes a man to say "I have seen God and yet live". This isn't an ordinary Elohim as in the context of the passages like Exodus 3 where Moses is made God to Pharaoh. Hosea does identify the man as an angel, but this doesn't refute the application that it is YHWH who wrestles with Jacob.
The same Angel who YHWH's name in him in the context of Exodus 23 later in the Judges 2, chastises the people for disobeying HIM:
"2 The angel of the Lord went up from Gilgal to Bokim and said, “I brought you up out of Egypt and led you into the land I swore to give to your ancestors. I said, ‘I will never break my covenant with you, 2 and you shall not make a covenant with the people of this land, but you shall break down their altars.’ Yet you have disobeyed me. Why have you done this? 3 And I have also said, ‘I will not drive them out before you; they will become traps for you, and their gods will become snares to you.’ 4 When the angel of the Lord had spoken these things to all the Israelites, the people wept aloud, 5 and they called that place Bokim.[a] There they offered sacrifices to the Lord."
The argument of agency will not deal with this adequately. See my article Contra Blumenthal.
"Now to finish off BOBO and his deception:
Now let us read again what BOBO said concerning Jesus:
...The angel was Jesus appearing as a man, but not fully being incarnated at these points in time and only Jesus could make the Father known to mankind.
This lie of BOBO benett concerning Jesus as an angel of God leads once again to the lie that the apostles made about Jesus:
I will cite what was written in “The real Jesus whom God wants the whole world to know
"Let us read what the apostles had written about Jesus and his relation to God’s angels:
So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs. For to which of the angels did God ever say, "You are my Son; today I have become your Father "? Or again, "I will be his Father, and he will be my Son”?
Hebrews 1:4-5 NIV
“So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.” – The apostles gave the impression (in the book of Hebrews)that Jesus is a Son of God, who is more superior to God’s angels in heaven. This led humanity into believing that Jesus is a direct and only Son of God and therefore reveres him.
We can read that the apostles (in Hebrews 1:5) used two verses in the Old Testament to make it appear that Jesus is higher than the angels.
One in Psalm 2:7:
"You are my Son; today I have become your Father "?
Psalm 2:7 NIV
And the second is in 2 Samuel. 7:14
I will be his father, and he will be my son…
2 Samuel 7:14 NIV
This only shows that the apostles are citing God’s words in the Old Testament. They made those two separate verses (Psalm 2:7 and 2 Samuel 7:14) to look as if Jesus is a glorified son of God and mightier than God’s angels.
The question is: were those words of God (in the Old Testament), really speak about Jesus being a Son of God more superior to God’s angels?
In 2 Samuel 7:14,God revealed (through the Bible) to His real prophet like Moses(Maestro Evangelista) that the apostles have twisted the truth regarding Jesus."
I'll be diving straight into the objection momentarily. We'll see who is really twisting and abusing the text.
"Let us start with 2 Samuel 7 verse 12
“When your days are over and you rest with your ancestors, I will raise up your
offspring to succeed you, your own flesh and blood, and I will establish his kingdom.
II Samuel 7:12 (NIV)
The promise given to David - a descendant or an “OFFSPRING” will come from his bloodline.
We can now begin to discover that the Apostles did not write accordingly to what God said. God clearly does not speak about an only begotten Son who is superior to the angels as they wrote in Hebrews 1:5! In the prophecy in 2 Samuel 7:14 God speaks to David through His prophet Nathan about his (David’s) offspring, of his own flesh and blood!
What would be the work of the descendant?
“He is the one who will build a house for my Name,
and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever...”
II Samuel 7:13 (NIV)
The offspring of David will have a special task from God and that is to build a House for His Name and when he is able to accomplish it, God will establish the throne of his (offspring of David) kingdom over Israel forever.
What was the other reward of God?
“I will be his father, and he will be my son. WHEN HE DOES WRONG, I WILL PUNISH HIM WITH A ROD WIELDED BY MEN, WITH FLOGGINGS INFLICTED BY HUMAN HANDS –
II Samuel 7:14 (NIV)
“I will be his father, and he will be my son.” - We can now understand how the apostles have written falsely about God’s word. It is clear that God speaks not of a direct Son as they have written in the book of Hebrews. Rather, it is about an offspring of David (David’s own flesh and blood), whom God shall send to build a house in His Name. When the offspring of David is successful in accomplishing his task, his throne as king will be established over Israel forever. Although he is just a descendant of David, God will reward him with the title “Son of God”
No Christian denies Jesus being the Son of David and that he will come from the house of David. BEING THE SON OF GOD FROM ETERNITY DOESN'T REFUTE HIM BEING THE SON OF DAVID. Erano is STRAW MANNING the incarnation. Jesus has two sonships in the New Testament, a divine sonship and a royal sonship as I have mentioned before in the past. Solomon is adopted as God's son and also has a royal sonship. Also, Christians don't deny that 2 Samuel 7 being applied to Jesus, BUT that doesn't automatically mean that Jesus was a sinner or become a sinner as I have pointed out previously: http://answering-judaism.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/how-erano-evangelista-deceived-humanity.html
"The apostles deliberately twisted God’s word regarding Jesus. Let us read 2 Samuel 7:14:
“I will be his father, and he will be my son. WHEN HE DOES WRONG, I WILL PUNISH HIM WITH A ROD WIELDED BY MEN, WITH FLOGGINGS INFLICTED BY HUMAN HANDS – II Samuel 7:14 (NIV)
“WHEN HE DOES WRONG, I WILL PUNISH HIM WITH A ROD WIELDED BY MEN, WITH FLOGGINGS INFLICTED BY HUMAN HANDS” –If he does wrong, the descendant of David would be punished by the floggings of men. This means that the one indicated in 2 Samuel 7:14 whom the apostles claim in Hebrews 1:5 as Jesus was foretold by God HIMSELF that he may commit wrong and thus a mere human and not divine! (God is not a man and therefore cannot commit a wrong as written in Numbers 23:19.)
The apostles only wrote in Hebrews 1:5, the part where God said in 2 Samuel 7:14 which read: “I will be his father, and he will be my son.” They left out the warning “WHEN HE DOES WRONG, I WILL PUNISH HIM WITH A ROD WIELDED BY MEN, WITH FLOGGINGS INFLICTED BY HUMAN HANDS.”God said that the son of David will be flogged by men if he commits wrong. It is clear that the apostles hid the truth why God had forsaken Jesus to die brutally. They are guilty of teaching mankind a false teaching that God sent Jesus to suffer and die for our sins!"
Let me repost what I said about 2 Samuel 7:14, as Lawin isn't getting this into his head:
"Within the text of 2 Samuel 7:12-17, it refers to the coronation of the King Solomon. This is royal sonship. Although Jesus was the Son from eternity, the sonship that is spoken of in Hebrews 1:5-8 is sonship in terms of his coronation, which occurred after his resurrection and sat at the Father's righthand. All three events that I have mentioned are to do with the coronation of the Messianic King. David, Solomon, then the Messiah himself. Solomon is God's son in reference to his coronation, which doesn't refute Christians as Erano claims the passage does."
"Within these texts, they refer to the coronation of the Kings Solomon and David. This is royal sonship. Although Jesus was the Son from eternity, the sonship that is spoken of in Hebrews 1:5-8 is sonship in terms of his coronation, which occurred after his resurrection and sat at the Father's righthand. All three events that I have mentioned are to do with the coronation of the Messianic King. David, Solomon, then the Messiah himself. God never calls the angels sons in this sense however he does call Jesus this.
Also in Luke 1: note the following
""30 But the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary; you have found favor with God. 31 You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you are to call him Jesus. 32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33 and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.”
This type of sonship requires one to be a descendant of David which Jesus affirms in the book of Revelation. A distinction between the two sonships is obviously there, when you cross referrence the statements given in Psalm 2 and 2 Samuel 7. How does Jesus inherit the name Son if he is already the Son? Because Hebrews is talking about 2 sonships, one royal and the other divine.""
Again, JESUS DYING ON THE CROSS DOESN'T MEAN HE WAS SUFFERING FOR HIS SINS!!!
This I have pointed out OVER AND OVER again and quite frankly, I am not impressed with the answer given.
Erano has NO understanding of Christianity whatsoever. Jesus being fully man, doesn't refute him being fully God or vice versa. He is fully both God and Man and is without sin as the SAME BOOK OF HEBREWS POINTS OUT in Hebrews 4:15.
To see my points on Numbers 23:19, Read this article: http://answering-judaism.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/classical-trinitarian-objections.html
"Now that the apostles are found to have twisted God’s word in 2 Samuel 7:14 to make it appear that Jesus is superior than God’s angels, it also follows that Bennett is wrong in saying that Jesus was the angel of God who appeared to Abraham and in everything he has written about God and Jesus in his blogspot.
Since The apostles whom BOBO consider as the authorities on God’s word about Jesus had now been exposed as liars- what credibility does BOBO have now?
You assume what you have yet to prove and haven't demonstrated my points to be false, but don't worry, more of your arguments shall be addressed if the Lord Wills in another paper.