This article is an opportunity to look into Zechariah 12:10 and response to Yehuda Yisrael.
The video involving Radar Apolgetics can be watched here: Radar Apologetics RUNS FROM Yehuda Yisrael?!
You can also watch the video commenting on Michael L Brown regarding this issue: Correcting Dr. Michael Brown on Zechariah 12:10.
See also this supplement to the video: I DEBUNKED Dr. Michael Brown LIVE on His Own Line Of Fire Show!
The
rabbinic commentary isn’t what I will be focusing on in this article.
While I
also believe in the Trinity, for now, it has no bearing on the discussion yet
as the main issue is whether the argument from Yehuda holds up to scrutiny. The
Trinity wouldn’t present a problem when taking the two natures of Jesus into
account, both God and Man, the latter of which is the chief focus.
First, let’s
quote Zechariah 12. The translation comes from Chabad.org.
1The
prophecy of the word of the Lord concerning Israel: Says the Lord, Who
stretches out the heavens and founds the earth and forms the spirit of man
within him: אמַשָּׂ֥א דְבַר־יְהֹוָ֖ה עַל־יִשְׂרָאֵ֑ל נְאֻם־יְהֹוָ֗ה נֹטֶ֚ה
שָׁמַ֙יִם֙ וְיֹסֵ֣ד אָ֔רֶץ וְיֹצֵ֥ר רֽוּחַ־אָדָ֖ם בְּקִרְבּֽוֹ:
2Behold! I
am making Jerusalem a cup of weakness for all the peoples around, and also on
Judah, [that he] shall be in the siege against Jerusalem. בהִנֵּ֣ה
אָ֠נֹכִי שָׂ֣ם אֶת־יְרֽוּשָׁלִַ֧ם סַף־רַ֛עַל לְכָל־הָֽעַמִּ֖ים סָבִ֑יב וְגַ֧ם עַל־יְהוּדָ֛ה
יִֽהְיֶ֥ה בַמָּצ֖וֹר עַל־יְרֽוּשָׁלִָֽם:
3And it
shall come to pass on that day that I will make Jerusalem a stone of burden for
all peoples; all who bear it shall be gashed, and all the nations of the earth
shall gather about it. גוְהָיָ֣ה בַיּֽוֹם־הַ֠הוּא אָשִׂ֨ים אֶת־יְרֽוּשָׁלִַ֜ם
אֶ֚בֶן מַֽעֲמָסָה֙ לְכָל־הָ֣עַמִּ֔ים כָּל־עֹֽמְסֶ֖יהָ שָׂר֣וֹט יִשָּׂרֵ֑טוּ וְנֶֽאֶסְפ֣וּ
עָלֶ֔יה כֹּ֖ל גּוֹיֵ֥י הָאָֽרֶץ:
4On that
day, says the Lord, I will smite every horse with bewilderment, and its rider
with madness. And upon the house of Judah I will open My eyes, and all the
horses of the peoples I will smite with blindness. דבַּיּ֨וֹם
הַה֜וּא נְאֻם־יְהֹוָ֗ה אַכֶּ֚ה כָל־סוּס֙ בַּתִּמָּה֔וֹן וְרֹֽכְב֖וֹ בַּשִּׁגָּע֑וֹן
וְעַל־בֵּ֚ית יְהוּדָה֙ אֶפְקַ֣ח אֶת־עֵינַ֔י וְכֹל֙ ס֣וּס הָֽעַמִּ֔ים אַכֶּ֖ה בַּֽעִוָּרֽוֹן:
5And the
princes of Judah shall say to themselves, "The inhabitants of Jerusalem
were my strength through the Lord of Hosts, their God." הוְאָֽמְר֛וּ
אַלֻּפֵ֥י יְהוּדָ֖ה בְּלִבָּ֑ם אַמְצָ֥ה לִי֙ יֹשְׁבֵ֣י יְרֽוּשָׁלִַ֔ם בַּֽיהֹוָ֥ה
צְבָא֖וֹת אֱלֹהֵיהֶֽם:
6On that
day I will make the princes of Judah as a fiery stove among wood, and as a
brand of fire among sheaves. And they shall consume on the right and on the
left all the nations round about, and Jerusalem shall still stay in its place
in Jerusalem. ובַּיּ֣וֹם הַה֡וּא אָשִׂים֩ אֶת־אַלֻּפֵ֨י
יְהוּדָ֜ה כְּֽכִיּ֧וֹר אֵ֣שׁ בְּעֵצִ֗ים וּכְלַפִּ֥יד אֵשׁ֙ בְּעָמִ֔יר וְאָֽ֨כְל֜וּ
עַל־יָמִ֧ין וְעַל־שְׂמֹ֛אול אֶת־כָּל־הָֽעַמִּ֖ים סָבִ֑יב וְיָֽשְׁבָ֨ה יְרֽוּשָׁלִַ֥ם
ע֛וֹד תַּחְתֶּ֖יהָ בִּירֽוּשָׁלִָֽם:
7And the
Lord shall first save the tents of Judah, so that the boasting of the house of
David and the boasting of the inhabitants of Jerusalem shall not increase over
Judah. זוְהוֹשִׁ֧יעַ יְהֹוָ֛ה אֶת־אָֽהֳלֵ֥י יְהוּדָ֖ה בָּרִֽאשֹׁנָ֑ה
לְמַ֨עַן לֹֽא־תִגְדַּ֜ל תִּפְאֶ֣רֶת בֵּֽית־דָּוִ֗יד וְתִפְאֶ֛רֶת ישֵׁ֥ב יְרֽוּשָׁלִַ֖ם
עַל־יְהוּדָֽה:
8On that
day the Lord shall protect the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and the weakest of
them shall be, on that day, like David. And the house of David shall be like
angels, like the angel of the Lord before them.
חבַּיּ֣וֹם הַה֗וּא יָגֵ֚ן יְהֹוָה֙
בְּעַד֙ יוֹשֵׁ֣ב יְרֽוּשָׁלִַ֔ם וְהָיָ֞ה הַנִּכְשָׁ֥ל בָּהֶ֛ם בַּיּ֥וֹם הַה֖וּא
כְּדָוִ֑יד וּבֵ֚ית דָּוִיד֙ כֵּֽאלֹהִ֔ים כְּמַלְאַ֥ךְ יְהֹוָ֖ה לִפְנֵיהֶֽם:
9And it
shall come to pass on that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations
that come upon Jerusalem. טוְהָיָ֖ה בַּיּ֣וֹם הַה֑וּא אֲבַקֵּ֗שׁ
לְהַשְׁמִיד֙ אֶת־כָּל־הַגּוֹיִ֔ם הַבָּאִ֖ים עַל־יְרֽוּשָׁלִָֽם:
10And I
will pour out upon the house of David and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem a
spirit of grace and supplications. And they shall look to me because of those
who have been thrust through [with swords], and they shall mourn over it as one
mourns over an only son and shall be in bitterness, therefore, as one is
embittered over a firstborn son. יוְשָׁפַכְתִּי֩ עַל־בֵּ֨ית דָּוִ֜יד וְעַ֣ל
| יוֹשֵׁ֣ב יְרֽוּשָׁלַ֗םִ ר֚וּחַ חֵן֙ וְתַ֣חֲנוּנִ֔ים וְהִבִּ֥יטוּ אֵלַ֖י אֵ֣ת אֲשֶׁר־דָּקָ֑רוּ
וְסָֽפְד֣וּ עָלָ֗יו כְּמִסְפֵּד֙ עַל־הַיָּחִ֔יד וְהָמֵ֥ר עָלָ֖יו כְּהָמֵ֥ר עַֽל־הַבְּכֽוֹר:
11On that
day there shall be great mourning in Jerusalem, like the mourning of
Hadadrimmon in the Valley of Megiddon.
יאבַּיּ֣וֹם הַה֗וּא יִגְדַּ֚ל הַמִּסְפֵּד֙
בִּיר֣וּשָׁלִַ֔ם כְּמִסְפַּ֥ד הֲדַדְרִמּ֖וֹן בְּבִקְעַ֥ת מְגִדּֽוֹן:
12And the
land shall mourn, every family apart: The family of the house of David apart,
and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives
apart. יבוְסָֽפְדָ֣ה
הָאָ֔רֶץ מִשְׁפָּח֥וֹת מִשְׁפָּח֖וֹת לְבָ֑ד מִשְׁפַּ֨חַת בֵּֽית־דָּוִ֚יד לְבָד֙
וּנְשֵׁיהֶ֣ם לְבָ֔ד מִשְׁפַּ֚חַת בֵּֽית־נָתָן֙ לְבָ֔ד וּנְשֵׁיהֶ֖ם לְבָֽד:
13The
family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of the
Shimeites apart, and their wives apart.
יגמִשְׁפַּ֚חַת בֵּֽית־לֵוִי֙ לְבָ֔ד
וּנְשֵׁיהֶ֖ם לְבָ֑ד מִשְׁפַּ֚חַת הַשִּׁמְעִי֙ לְבָ֔ד וּנְשֵׁיהֶ֖ם לְבָֽד:
14All the
remaining families-every family apart, and their wives apart. ידכֹּ֗ל
הַמִּשְׁפָּחוֹת֙ הַנִּשְׁאָר֔וֹת מִשְׁפָּחֹ֥ת מִשְׁפָּחֹ֖ת לְבָ֑ד וּנְשֵׁיהֶ֖ם לְבָֽד:
The
argument presented regarding Zechariah 12:10 is if the House of David is
inclusive of the Messiah, this would mean the Messiah would not be the one
thrust through (though the chronology of Zechariah 12 is something discussed in
the supplement response by Yehuda addressing Brown and his comments as to why
it makes no sense with Jesus which is another issue.)
The point
as explained to me in the comments was that the person debating Yehuda is
gotten into accepting the premise and it is incontrovertible that you cannot
disagree with the premise.
This
allowed Yehuda to box Radar Apologetics and Michael L Brown in a corner where
they had to say, “Wait a second, it’s not that.” and change their position.
The
argument presented in my view is a bait and switch fallacy. It assumes that the
Messiah is of the House of David and thus cannot be the one thrust through,
instead the Messiah is looking upon the one thrust through.
The House
of David being inclusive of the Messiah cannot be avoided. Messiah Son of David
logically comes from the House of David, hence the name.
Even in
Messianic prophecies agreed upon by Jews and Christians, The Messiah Son of
David often stands alone with respect to his role as king and his works. He has
subjects, followers and people who will stand with him, but he is the
representative of the House of David. He rules on behalf of God as the
Messianic King and within the parameters of obedience to God can act as he sees
fit, separate from his house, taking or leaving the counsel of others.
You can
safely have the Messiah Son of David thrust through and be the one who is
mourned for. You don’t have to cast aside him being of the House of David
either.
How
does it make sense in light of Jesus?
While slightly off topic, Yehuda had a debate with a Black Hebrew Israelite called Ahrayahla Sicarii and in that debate, Yehuda kept pressing Ahrayahla on Zechariah 12 to give his interpretation: Who Are the Real Jews of The Hebrew Bible? Orthodox Jew Versus "Sicarii Hebrew Israelite.
So, Why not give my take on Zechariah 12 here?
For argument’s sake, let us run with the translation by Chabad, look to me because of the one they thrust through. To repeat my response to Menashe Walsh. I will not dispute that the chapter does refer to the protection of Jerusalem and God joining Israel in the battle to turn the tide against the Gentiles who are attacking them. (Naturally, a Christian, including myself would acknowledge a second coming, but in any case, the point made above is valid.)
Does Zechariah
12 refer to a battle that took place after the writing of his book a little
while afterward, or is it a future event that is going to happen? I think it
would be a possible reference to both.
But
putting that aside, considering the events taking place to this day in Israel
and the Jews receiving the protection, it is plausible that they have that
protection from God now despite belief or unbelief and regardless of whether
they accept Jesus, as it has always been by God’s grace the Jewish people
continue to exist, whether they be Ashkenazi Jews, Sephardic Jews, or even Ethiopian
Jews (Also known as Beta Israel.) Regardless of the scattering of the Jewish
people, they have also thrived. I will concede (though the point wasn’t made by
Yehuda) that Zechariah 12 doesn’t refer to the destruction of Jerusalem 40
years after Jesus came.
However, one
way to look at the passage is that all the events transpire in Zechariah 12 in
the end of days, then finally the Jews (the ones who didn’t believe) see Jesus face to face and mourn because
they pierced him, the very one who can offer redemption and protection. In
other words, the piercing had already taken place before a major battle itself.
If the reading given from Chabad is correct, (though it says swords not spears in parentheses but regardless it is someone who is thrust through with a weapon.) The Jews look to YHWH because of the one who was pierced by the Romans, The Son of David himself, who will return to bring vengeance on the enemies of God.
Would it
be possible that Jesus' death is a catalyst for these events in Zechariah 12
and then the Jews coming to grips with what they did to the Messiah are
possibly reconciled to him? I'll leave you the reader to decide.
The
Trinity
Regardless
of the reading you take with Zechariah 12:10, the doctrine of the Trinity
remains untouched as passages that deal with the Deity of Jesus are dealt with
elsewhere. I have written articles about the doctrine of the Trinity if you
desire to check them out:
http://answering-judaism.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/deuteronomy-64-trinity-vs-shema.html
http://answering-judaism.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/deuteronomy-64-trinity-vs-shema-2.html
http://answering-judaism.blogspot.co.uk/2014/04/response-to-droptozro.html
http://answering-judaism.blogspot.co.uk/2014/04/comments-on-anissueof-ursincerity-and.html
http://answering-judaism.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/three-person-one-person-false-dilemma.html
http://answering-judaism.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/spirit-of-god-response-to-anonyemous.html
http://answering-judaism.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/classical-trinitarian-objections.html
http://answering-judaism.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/challenge-from-facebook-unitarian.html
http://answering-judaism.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/the-trinity-is-not-truth.html
http://answering-judaism.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/the-angel-of-lord.html
http://answering-judaism.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/more-on-angel-of-lord.html
http://answering-judaism.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/even-more-on-deity-of-christ-and-angel.html
Answering
Judaism.
Addendum: All mankind due to our sin were responsible for Jesus dying on the cross and while the Jews of his day called for the Romans to put him to death, either way there is regret for what happened.
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