tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3335270607657867160.post1622779014069465986..comments2023-03-01T11:37:09.936-08:00Comments on Answering Judaism: Critique of Judge Not: A response to Yisroel BlumenthalAnswering Judaismhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08118361261862962380noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3335270607657867160.post-12620548478607109442014-03-22T11:25:04.330-07:002014-03-22T11:25:04.330-07:00The translation of garbage or rubbish isn't th...The translation of garbage or rubbish isn't the issue with respect to Philippians, the point is, it is NOT referring to the Torah as garbage or rubbish.<br /><br />There are articles I have written on whether the early apostles regarded Jesus as God, namely responses to individuals such as Tovia Singer and Richard Merrell. <br /><br />In my articles on the Pauline Conspiracy, I go through Yisroel Blumenthal's points about Paul ONE by ONE. But I am happy to reiterate certain points here. regarding Paul.<br /><br />Firstly, Gentiles not being required to observe certain ordinances of the Torah can be found in Acts 15 at a council, headed by one of the James of the NT interestingly enough. Jesus also in Matthew 20:28 and Mark 10:45 says he came to give his life as a ransom for many, which would indicate the dying and rising teaching came from Jesus himself. What other reason would he give for dying and rising again? It would seem redundant.<br /><br />Paul's revelation by him going to the apostles could be verified by them particularly, because they themselves had walked with Jesus, were aware of what he taught and thus could judge Paul correct or incorrect based on their masters teaching. If what Paul received went against what Jesus himself taught, then the apostles would have to reject him just like the other candidates you mentioned. <br /><br />Muhammad and the others cannot speak to the apostles, thus it is very easy to deny their claims when comparing them to Paul.<br /><br />Additionally in 2nd Peter 3:16, Peter treats Paul's writings as authoritative as the TANAKH. Best case scenario, the apostle Peter wrote it, Worst Case, another man wrote it. Either way, the early Christians accepted Paul's writings as authoritative, including such men as Ignatius of Antioch, who was a student of John the Apostle.Answering Judaismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08118361261862962380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3335270607657867160.post-43849745843007524572014-03-22T07:02:10.801-07:002014-03-22T07:02:10.801-07:00One more point- Do you not admit that Paul purpose...One more point- Do you not admit that Paul purposely mistranslates verses and quotes verses out of context from the Hebrew Bible to change the original meaning and intent for the purposes of converting his Gentile audience? I can provide a few examples if you wish. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14383015622745198194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3335270607657867160.post-90040617322636326832014-03-22T06:58:10.670-07:002014-03-22T06:58:10.670-07:00Your translation was "garbage"- no diffe...Your translation was "garbage"- no difference between rubbish and garbage.<br />Your rationalization about Paul meeting the apostles does not hold water. The picture presented of Jesus by the synoptic texts is one of man (not a god) who was more or less Torah observant and preached of the Kingdom of God. Paul's revelation changed all that - eliminating Torah, circumcision,etc to simple belief in a divine dying-rising saviour who saves all mankind from its sins. And the important point is we are taking about one individual who says that Jesus speaks to him about these matters- you can never verify whether what Paul reports is true or not-it is one person's revelation. Additionally, the descriptions of these events within Acts and in Paul's own letters demonstrate a high degree of variations bringing the whole episode into question. As a medical doctor it sounds to me like Paul had an epileptic seizure. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14383015622745198194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3335270607657867160.post-36444281656341478532014-03-22T01:04:33.336-07:002014-03-22T01:04:33.336-07:00Here's the difference, Paul went to those who ...Here's the difference, Paul went to those who WALKED with Jesus, those who spoke with him in person to confirm what he received, whereas the other groups didn't seek Jesus in person. So hardly a similarity.<br /><br />In Philippians 3 we read:<br />"3 Further, my brothers and sisters, rejoice in the Lord! It is no trouble for me to write the same things to you again, and it is a safeguard for you. 2 Watch out for those dogs, those evildoers, those mutilators of the flesh. 3 For it is we who are the circumcision, we who serve God by his Spirit, who boast in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh— 4 though I myself have reasons for such confidence.<br /><br />If someone else thinks they have reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more: 5 circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee; 6 as for zeal, persecuting the church; as for righteousness based on the law, faultless.<br /><br />7 But whatever were gains to me I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. 8 What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them garbage, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in[a] Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith. 10 I want to know Christ—yes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11 and so, somehow, attaining to the resurrection from the dead.<br /><br />12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13 Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus."<br /><br />He is saying that his achievements throughout his life, they didn't gain him anything, they were meaningless because they didn't help him seek reconciliation with God. Despite nearly flawlessly keeping the law, he stumbled in one area, covetousness. No where in the context is he saying the Torah is rubbish.Answering Judaismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08118361261862962380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3335270607657867160.post-51752617303231347432014-03-21T16:25:43.510-07:002014-03-21T16:25:43.510-07:00"Paul doesn't say the Torah is worthless&..."Paul doesn't say the Torah is worthless"...Really? Here is how Paul describes his heritage, ancestry and purity wrt KEEPING THE MOSAIC LAW:<br /><br />Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as RUBBISH, that I may gain Christ Phil 3:8<br /><br />Wrt Mohammed and Joseph Smith- I am merely pointing out the similarities which exist among almost all religions (except Judaism) ie 1 or 2 people have a revelation and convince others to follow.<br /><br />for example, Buddhist writings tell us that Prince Siddhartha Gautama launched Buddhism after his solitary ascendance through the eight stages of Transic insight; Islamic texts tell us that Muhammad founded Islam following the first of many personal, prophetic experiences; Christian writings reveal that Paul first met Jesus, converted to Christianity, and spread the faith more than three decades after Jesus’ death; Joseph Smith, Jr., and his partner, Oliver Cowdery, launched the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter- day Saints (the Mormon church) after the two men were visited by angels and long-dead disciples of Jesus; and Sun Myung Moon launched the Unification Church after privately receiving direct orders to do so from Jesus himself. The beginnings of Children of God, Christian Science, Eckankar, Elan Vital, I AM, and Theosophy — in fact, the beginnings of all world religions — are equally unverifiable.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14383015622745198194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3335270607657867160.post-17896741897680209772014-03-21T12:17:43.121-07:002014-03-21T12:17:43.121-07:00Paul doesn't say the Torah is worthless, He ca...Paul doesn't say the Torah is worthless, He calls it good, but makes the point you cannot be saved by it. That's his point, he is not condeming the Torah in an of itself. Furthermore, he checked his information WITH the apostles. Comparing Paul to Muhammad and Joseph Smith is a ridiculous red herring. I could easily say Rabbinic Judaism is like Roman Catholicism because it requires it's adherents to believe in tradition as equal to scripture, but that won't get us anywhere.<br /><br />This whole Who is Jesus debate comes down to who is the one being true to HaShem? I'd say believing in Jesus would entail leading to him.Answering Judaismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08118361261862962380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3335270607657867160.post-3715598676208897482014-03-21T11:39:53.532-07:002014-03-21T11:39:53.532-07:00You have missed my point. I am not talking about &...You have missed my point. I am not talking about "being saved". This is a Christian concept based on the theme of original sin and being condemned to hell if you do not accept Jesus as your lord and savior. I am referring to your statement regarding being righteous. Hashem in the Hebrew Bible tells us who is righteous and how to be righteous through His prophets and anointed ones. Paul tells you the Torah is worthless. How does he know? Riiiight...he had his mystical revelation on the road to Damascus. If you choose to believe him-that's your option, but it is just a one person revelation-no different from the revelation of Mohammed or Joseph Smith-you either believe it or not. These scenarios pale in comparison to the national revelation before the entire Jewish nation at Sinai. The covenant made between the Jewish people and Hashem is eternal. God tells us in the Hebrew Bible that the Torah is "a tree of life". Moshe (Moses) tells us through Hashem :" And it will be for our righteousness that we keep to observe all these commandments before the Lord, our God, as He has commanded us." Deut 6:25. You can keep listening and following Paul. I choose to follow Hashem.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14383015622745198194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3335270607657867160.post-14033692763288674602014-03-21T00:55:40.996-07:002014-03-21T00:55:40.996-07:00And no I don't follow the Ebionites, In fact I...And no I don't follow the Ebionites, In fact I condemn them as heretical and made this point in my Pauline Conspiracy articles which respond to some of the claims of Rabbi Blumenthal about Paul.Answering Judaismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08118361261862962380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3335270607657867160.post-40933768566262003782014-03-21T00:51:20.171-07:002014-03-21T00:51:20.171-07:00Hi barry
You misunderstood my point about the goo...Hi barry<br /><br />You misunderstood my point about the good works, Yisroel's point was that other religions claim to the only way, not just Christianity alone and my point was those other religions didn't have a solution for human sin and dealing with it, In that context I wasn't referring to Judaism. I am not suggesting that Torah observance saves you.<br /><br />""Christianity on the other hand however teaches God declares you righteous when you come to him in repentance and faith and then you carry out good works as GRATITUDE to him, rather than for your salvation."<br /><br />Actually, that is what Judaism teaches, not Christianity- at least according to Paul's teachings. It is Judaism that teaches that if man sincerely repents of his sins and tries to improve his behaviour- then forgiveness is obtainable from Hashem. Our guide for ethical behaviour is the Torah, and its commandments or mitzvot."<br /><br />Does Judaism today teach a forensic justification before God?<br /><br />Also, Read Ephesians 2:8-10 "8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do."<br /><br />So Paul does speak on works, but he makes it clear you are NOT saved by works, but saved for them instead.<br /><br />While the Torah itself is good as a guideline, you can't be saved by merely observing it. I have also written articles on whether Gentiles should observe certain ordinances of the Torah or not in other articles, a common issue raised by some Messianics and the heretical 7th Day Adventists.<br /><br />I affirm the statement in Acts whole heartily. Also it is incorrect to say Jesus is a demi-god, that falls more into Herculean myth than Biblical truth.<br /><br />There is no evidence that the James of the NT taught the Ebionite doctrines, in fact he calls Jesus the glorious Lord or the Lord of Glory.Answering Judaismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08118361261862962380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3335270607657867160.post-33826890077196059242014-03-20T16:26:51.028-07:002014-03-20T16:26:51.028-07:00"Christianity on the other hand however teach..."Christianity on the other hand however teaches God declares you righteous when you come to him in repentance and faith and then you carry out good works as GRATITUDE to him, rather than for your salvation."<br /><br />Actually, that is what Judaism teaches, not Christianity- at least according to Paul's teachings. It is Judaism that teaches that if man sincerely repents of his sins and tries to improve his behaviour- then forgiveness is obtainable from Hashem. Our guide for ethical behaviour is the Torah, and its commandments or mitzvot.<br /><br />According to Christianity, if Torah observance were effective for the purpose of<br />the remission of sins, then the death of Jesus on the cross would have been for<br />naught. However, the New Testament teaches that Jesus was the last a final sin<br />sacrifice:<br /><br />Consequently, "the Law" (meaning, the Torah) is impotent, and righteousness<br />can only be attained by following Jesus:<br />Galatians 2:21(KJV) - I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.<br /><br />According to Christianity, salvation and remission of sins is through the blood of the dying demi-god saviour.<br /><br />It is only by accepting<br />Jesus as Lord and Savior that God's "grace" (remember, for Christians, Jesus is<br />God manifest in the flesh) returns to mankind – a belief in Jesus "saves" a<br />person and provides salvation:<br />Acts 15:11(KJV) - But we believe that through the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ we<br />shall be saved, even as they. <br /><br />Paul statements especially in Galatians are so full of holes when you examine the Hebrew bible, it's laughable. Hashem tells us in the Tanach, about the righteous, which include Noah, Daniel, and Job among many others- none of whom believed in Jesus. BTW, what "works" are you referring to? Paul dismisses good works and deeds as being of much worth. Are you following the doctrine of James and the Ebionites?<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14383015622745198194noreply@blogger.com